Hansen, Just [1918]

Morfars far:
Morfars mor:
Mormors far:
Mormors mor:
Farfars far:
Farfars mor:
Farmors far:
Farmors mor:
Morfar: Just Andreasen Oppenhagen [1926] (1734-1807)
Mormor: Cathrina Dorothea Hoffreuter [1927] (1735-)
Farfar: Søren Hansen [11841] (-)
Farmor: Else Jørgensen [11842] (-)
Far: Jeppe Severin Brinch Hansen [1920] (Ca. 1766-1839)
Mor: Cathrine Dorthea Justdatter Oppenhagen [1921] (1759-1853)

Just Hansen [1918] (1800-1864)

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Notes:

• • Zivilstandsregister, Lübeck, Geburten 1832-1836:
    

Translation of the birth record of Johann Eduard Julius Just Hansen, No. 628

Today on the 19th of December 1832 in the chancellery (government office) of the city of Lübeck appeared Just Hansen, salt packer, resident in the Dankwärtsgrube, and reported that his wife Anna Catharina Maria, née Sörensen, on the 12th of December in the morning at 9:30 am delivered a child of the male gender who received the first names Johann Eduard Julius Just, and the informant signed this birth record with us (before us).
Just Hansen [signed] C. L. Roeck, secretary

• • Zivilstandsregister, Lübeck, Geburten 1832-1836:

Translation of the birth of Anna Catharina Maria Hansen, No. 8

Today on the 6th of January 1832 in the chancellery (government office) of the city of Lübeck appeared Just Hansen, salt packer, resident in the Stabenstraße, and reported that his wife Anna Catharina Maria, née Sörensen, on the 31st of December of the previous year at night at 12:30 am delivered a child of the female gender who received the forenames Anna Catharina Maria, and the informant signed this birth record with us (before us).
Hansen [signed] C. L. Roeck, secretary

Many thanks to Robert Seal for the translations.

Events:

• • Birth: 1 Feb. 1800, Købmagergade, Fredericia, Fredericia Trinitatis, Elbo, Vejle, Denmark
    
  • Baptism: 1 Feb. 1800, Trinitatis Kirke, Fredericia Trinitatis, Elbo, Vejle, Denmark
  • Proclamation (of marriage): 27 Apr. 1826 in Lübeck, Germany:

No. 79, Just Hansen und Anna Catharina Magdalena Möller
? den 27 April in der ? der Stadt Lübeck ? Just Hansen, Arbeitsmann in ? ? ?, Sohn von Severin Hansen und Catharina Dorothea Justs aus Friedericia in Jütland, und ? ? ? ? mit Anna Catharina Magdalena Möller, Tochter der Christina Catharina Meyer und der Johann Friedrich Möller … ? …
… ? … d. 1 Feb. 1800 zu Friedericia in Jütland getauft und ? ? am 21 Mart. d.J. [the same year] …?…
Die Braut war ? ? der ? ? am 25 Juny 1800 ? geboren. Die … ? …
…? …
Ad No. 79:
? der Arbeitsmann Hansen ? ? ? ? ? Schierning und Friedericia vom 8 May d.J. sowohl im … ? … 18 May.

Sources:

• • Just Hansens baptism: KB 1685-1805, Fredericia Trinitatis, Elbo, Vejle, opsl. 465
  • Proclamation: Nr. 79, d. 27 Apr. 1826 in Lübeck: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSPZ-P95Q-2?i=537&cat=222914
  • The daughter, Magdalena Catharina Christina Hansen in the Zivilstandsregister in Lübeck (Geburten 1823-1827, Film #004026296): https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G92Z-76QS?i=531&cat=222914
  • The son, Christoph Friedrich Gabriel Hansen i Zivilstandsregister i Lübeck (Geburten 1828-1831, Film # 008110548): https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJB-HQM6-N?i=311&cat=222914
  • The daughter, Anna Catharina Maria Hansen in the Zivilstandsregister in Lübeck (Geburten 1832-1836, Film # 008235262): https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSP7-W971-8?i=15&cat=222914
  • The daughter, Anna Catharina Maria Hansens death, Nr. 866: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSP8-J3F6-3?i=490&cat=222914
  • The son, Johann Eduard Julius Just Hansen in the Zivilstandsregister in Lübeck (Geburten 1832-1836, Film # 008235262): https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSP7-W97L-J?i=117&cat=222914
  • The son, Carl Christian Heinrich Hansen in the Zivilstandsregister in Lübeck (Geburten 1832-1836, Film # 008235262): https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSP7-W9QT-X?i=352&cat=222914
  • The daughter, Dorothea Sophia Maria Hansen in the Zivilstandsregister in Lübeck (Geburten 1832-1836, Film # 008235262): https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSP7-W9WM-4?i=594&cat=222914
  • The son, Franz August Ludwig in the Zivilstandsregister in Lübeck (Geburten 1837-1840, Film # 008235263): https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSP7-W376-4?i=237&cat=222914

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Problems:

Det store spørgsmål er om Anna Catharina Magdalena Möller og Anna Catharina Maria Sørensen i virkeligheden er den samme person. Indtil videre må det anses som uopklaret, da der er for mange ubesvarede spørgsmål.

Det lader faktisk til at Just Hansen og Anna Catharina Magdalena Möller blev gift i 1826. Nu må jeg søge hendes død, som tilsyneladende er sket 11 Sep. 1840, men navnet er forkert (Anna Catharina Margarethe Möller). Man må spørge sig selv om præsten i dette kirchspiel var døv, blind eller stangdrukken, eller om det virkelig drejer sig om to forskellige personer. Indtil videre antager jeg det sidste.
Der blev født et barn i 1840 af en Just Hansen og samme Anna Catharina Margaretha Møller og jeg tror det er et tredie forhold uden interesse for mig. Vi får se.
Jeg er nået frem til den beslutning, at det var en tredie Just Hansen gift med en Anna Catharina Margaretha Rocks, hvorfor dette ægteskab og deres børn er fjernet fra denne side. Et ægteskab kan ikke producere et barn i 1828 og et andet i 1840, og ind imellem er der to andre ægteskaber, der producere andre børn. Der må være tale om flere forskellige personer ved navn Just Hansen. Når alle børn er fundet, bør jeg kigge alle dødsfald igennem fra 1838, og derefter alle vielser i samme periode. Først da kan jeg være sikker på Just Hansens ægteskaber.Jeg må desværre erkende at denne familie volder mig store problemer. Der er i Lübeck omkring 1824-40 ikke mindre end 5 ægteskaber hvor husbonden hedder Just Hansen, og i 4 af disse ægteskaber, har hustruen næsten identiske navne, eks.:
1) Anna Catharina Magdalena Möller (ser korrekt ud)
2) Anna Catharina Margaretha Möller
3) Anna Catharina Maria Sørensen (ser korrekt ud)
4) Anna Catharina Margaretha Rocks
5) Catharina Wilhelmine Elisabeth Petersen

Det har indtil videre været et værre roderi, og det ser ikke ud til at jeg uden videre får opklaret mysterierne, men der er hints, som måske kan hjælpe i opklaringen:

Ægteskab 1: 18 Maj 1826 i Lübeck, med Anna Catharina Magdalena Möller,
Børn: Magdalena Catharina Christina Hansen, f. 25 Jan. 1827 i Lübeck, indberettet d. 30 Jan. 1827. I Proklamationen for dette ægteskab nævnes Just Hansens forældre korrekt, så det ser korrekt ud.
Ægteskab 2: 21 maj 1828, Sct. Aegidienkirche, Lübeck med Anna Catharina Maria Sørensen, født 25 Jun. 1800 i Lübeck, Tyskland og døde 11 Sep. 1840 i Lübeck (Dødsdato måske ikke korrekt, og ægteskabet ikke dolumenteret i Proklamationerne for Lübeck, men min tipoldefar blev født af dette ægteskab, så jeg er sikker på det er korrekt).
De øvrige hustruer (Nr. 2, 4 og 5) kan derfor være gift med andre personer ved navn Just Hansen, hvilket navn nok ikke er sjældent i Lübeck på den tid. Jeg tror det vil være klogest at antage, at hustru Nr. 1 og 3 er korrekte, da der er data der bekræfter Just Hansens identitet i begge disse ægteskaber. Således er ægteskaber med hustruerne Anna Catharina Margaretha Möller, Anna Catharina Margaretha Rocks og Catharina Wilhelmine Elisabeth Petersen sikkert irrelevante, ligesom børnene af disse ægteskaber. Tiden vil måske vise det.

• Anna Catharina Margarethe Möller død: 11 Sep. 1840 i Lübeck https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSGD-BC1X?i=489&cat=222914
  • Børn med Anna Catharina Margarethe Möller:
  • Sophia Catharina Margaretha Hansen, f. ca. 7 Sep. 1840, d. 28 Sep. 1840 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSGD-BZ2G?cat=222914

Her er en oversigt over hvad jeg har gennemgået:

Zivilstandsregistre:
Film # 004026296:
Joh. Marg. Maria Hansen 488 (mor: Rocks)
1826: ingen Just Hansen
1827: 69 Magdalena Catharina Christina Hansen (mor: Anna Catharina Magdalena Møller)

Film # 008110548:
1828: ingen Just Hansen
1829: ingen Just Hansen
1830:304 Christoph Friedrich Gabriel Hansen
1831: ingen Just Hansen

Film # 008235262:
1832: 8 Anna Catharina Maria Hansen (mor: Anna Catharina Maria Sørensen), 628 Johann Eduard Julius Just Hansen (mor: Anna Catharina Maria Sørensen)
1833: ingen Just Hansen
1834: 611 Carl Christian Heinrich Hansen (mor: Anna Catharina Maria Sørensen)
1835: ingen Just Hansen
1836: 498 Dorothea Sophia Maria Hansen (mor: Anna Catharina Maria Sørensen)

Film # 008235263:
1837: ingen Just Hansen
1838: 548 Franz August Ludwig Hansen (mor: Anna Catharina Maria Sørensen)
1839: ingen Just Hansen
1840: 490 Sophia Catharina Margaretha Hansen  (mor: Anna Catharina Margaretha Møller) https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSP7-W33K-Z?i=528&cat=222914

Film # 008235264:
1841: ingen Just Hansen
1842; ingen Just Hansen
1843: 614 (mor: Catharina Wilhelmine Elisabeth Petersen)
1844: ingen Just Hansen

Proklamationsregister:
1820 ingen
1821 ingen
1822 ingen
1823 ingen
1824 ingen
1825 ingen
1826 Just Hansen og Anna Catharina Magdalena Möller

1827 ingen
1828 ingen
1829 ingen
1830 ingen

1831 ingen
1832 ingen
1833 ingen
1834 intet register
1835 ingen
1836 ingen

Døde: (Hansen/Möller)
1824: ingen rigtige
1825: ingen rigtige
1826: ingen rigtige
1827: Ingen rigtige
1828: ingen rigtige

1829: ingen rigtige
1830: ingen rigtige
1831: ingen rigtige
1832: 866 Anna Catharina Maria Hansen død, 882 Catharina Magdalena Henriette Hansen død (og forældrene lader til at være korrekte), 883 Magdalena Christina Catharina Hansen død (og forældrene lader til at være korrekte), 944 Christian Friedrich Gabriel Hansen død (og forældrene er korrekte.

Her er alle de forskellige registre for Lübeck: https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/222914?availability=Family%20History%20Library

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Her er hele kommunikationen med Robert Seal_1
KeHe1952
Can someone please help me translate this Zivilstandsregister? (To either Danish or English)
I am curious as to what this document is, and what it says. My own assumption is, that it is a birth register for Lübeck 1832-1836 (in fact, only 1832).
The record in question is No. 9: Just Hansen and Anna Catharina Maria geb. Sørensen in Lübeck. As I understand it, the daughter Anna Catharina Maria was born on Jan. 6th 1832.
The parents are my ggg grandfather and -mother. Link:  https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSP7-W971-8?i=15&cat=222914

The couple also had a son, Johann Eduard Julis Just Hansen, apparently born 20 Dec. 1832, which I would love to have translated as well: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSP7-W97L-J?i=117Robert Seal_1
The birth record you are interested in is no. 8. The birth was reported on 6 January 1832, but the birth occurred on 31 December 1831.
Translation:
No. 8
Today on the 6th of January 1832 in the chancellery (government office) of the city of Lübeck appeared Just Hansen, salt packer, resident in the Stabenstraße, and reported that his wife Anna Catharina Maria, née Sörensen, on the 31st of December of the previous year at night at 12:30 am delivered a child of the female gender who received the forenames Anna Catharina Maria, and the informant signed this birth record with us (before us).
Hansen [signed] C. L. Roeck, secretary

Translation of the birth record of Johann Eduard Julius Just Hansen:
No. 628
Today on the 19th of December 1832 in the chancellery (government office) of the city of Lübeck appeared Just Hansen, salt packer, resident in the Dankwärtsgrube, and reported that his wife Anna Catharina Maria, née Sörensen, on the 12th of December in the morning at 9:30 am delivered a child of the male gender who received the forenames Johann Eduard Julius Just, and the informant signed this birth record with us (before us).
Just Hansen [signed] C. L. Roeck, secretary

KeHe1952
Thank you so much, Robert. I am very grateful for your help 😃
I am still in the dark about the possible death of Anna Catharina Maria Sørensen (or a possible divorce), as it seems Just Hansen married a Anna Catharina Margaretha Moeller (Möller) at some point of time, which marriage is unknown to me. Sadly, I cannot find deaths or marriages in Lübeck for this time period, so I have no proof either to whether the first wife died or not. As such, I am also unsure about some of the children I have located, with the latter (A.C.M. Moeller) as the mother. What puzzles me seriously, is the fact that this woman apparently was the mother of a child born in 1828, and another in 1840. In between, the first wife was listed as the mother of several children. This might point to me being mistaken about a second marriage.
I am ready to discard the marriage to A.C.M. Moeller entirely due to these discrepancies. Furthermore, the name Just Hansen might have been relatively common in Schleswig-Holsten at the time, so it may be that two persons by that name have been mixed together by accident. This is what I have for now (sorry for the Danish language): https://sites.google.com/site/herbstfamilytreedenmark/home/Names/Family-charts/Hansen-just-1918

Robert Seal_1
Here is a link to a catalog record from the Family History Library for the civil registration records for the city of Lübeck: https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/222914?availability=Family%20History%20Library
Under the “Film/Digital Notes” all the records entitled “Tote” are death records and should be available to you by clicking the camera icon on the far right for the years you are interested in. The records entitled “Proklamationen” are marriage proclamations and should also be available to you by clicking the camera icon. You may be correct that this is the case of two people with the same name living in the same place. Note that one of the men named “Just Hansen” is a salt packer and the other is a common carrier. This may be a clue that these are two different people.

KeHe1952
Thank you again for your help, Robert 😃
I am taking measures this very moment, to remove the marriage between the “wrong” Just Hansen and Anna Catharina Margaretha Moeller, as it must be a whole other marriage. No marriage can produce children both in 1828 and 1840, and in between a different wife gives birth to several other children with the same husband, so I have decided to explain the issue on my website, and will then try to remove the “wrong” marriage on my family tree here on FS as well. I am very grateful for your second opinion, thank you again. Hopefully I can now find all the children of the correct marriage.

This is crazy! I have now found a third person by the name Just Hansen, this one married to a Anna Catharina Margaretha Rocks (in the film 1823-27). Could you please translate Just Hansens occupation for me? I would like to be certain this is not “my” Just Hansens possible 1st marriage. It is No. 488. Link: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G92Z-7X7K?i=218&cat=222914

Robert Seal_1
The occupation of this Just Hansen is: Böttchergesell. Böttchergesell = journeyman cooper or journeyman barrel-maker

KeHe1952
Thank you once more. I have to wait a bit to look into the above Just Hansen, as I have actually found that he was married BEFORE the marriage I know of. And I am 100% certain it is the right Just Hansen, as both his birth date and parents are mentioned. In case you would like to help me translate, I would be very very happy. This “Proklamation” might be a betrothal or a marriage, I am not sure, but here it is: Proklamation: Nr. 79, d. 27 Apr. 1826 in Lübeck: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSPZ-P95Q-2?i=537&cat=222914
This is what I read:
No. 79, Just Hansen und Anna Catharina Magdalena Möller
? den 27 April in der ? der Stadt Lübeck ? Just Hansen, Arbeitsmann in ? ? ?, Sohn von Severin Hansen und Catharina Dorothea Justs aus Friedericia in Jütland, und ? ? ? ? mit Anna Catharina Magdalena Möller, Tochter der Christina Catharina Meyer und der Johann Friedrich Möller … ? … … ? … d. 1 Feb. 1800 zu Friedericia in Jütland getauft und ? ? am 21 Mart. d.J. [der selbe Jahr?] …?… Die Braut war ? ? der ? ? am 25 Juny 1800 ? geboren. Die … ? …  …? …
Ad No. 79: ? der Arbeitsmann Hansen ? ? ? ? ? Schierning und Friedericia vom 8 May d.J. sowohl im … ? … 18 May.

Robert Seal_1
Hello KeHe1952,
This record is beyond my knowledge of German as I am not a native German speaker.
I would recommend you post record. no. 79 as a new question and ask the German Genealogy Research group at large to translate the entire record for you.
Regarding record no. 79:
The occupation of Just Hansen in record no. 79 is Arbeitsmann = workman.
It also looks to me that the actual marriage of the couple in record no. 79 took place on 18 May 1826. This appears at the end of the record on the right-hand side under “ad No. 79”
I also want to point out, and you have probably noticed this already, that the bride in this record is named: Anna Catharina Magdalena Möller, and the woman who gave birth to Sophia Catherina Margaretha Hansen in September 1840 is named Anna Catharina Margaretha Möller.

KeHe1952
Thank you, I agree that this case is very confusing. It is not at all uncommon, that church records contain minor errors, and as such I am at my wits end, as to what I should believe. As of right now, the name Just Hansen appears in no less than 5 different marriages, namely with the following wives:
1) Anna Catharina Magdalena Möller
2) Anna Catharina Margaretha Möller
3) Anna Catharina Maria Sørensen
4) Anna Catharina Margaretha Rocks
5) Catharina Wilhelmine Elisabeth Petersen
The only marriage I have where Just Hansens parents are mentioned is with No. 1, but Just Hansen and No. 3 were with 100% certainty the parents of my gg grandfather.
Some of these wives could definitely be cases of miswritings, or I have lost it totally and completely, lol. I simply have to keep an open mind about the possibility that Anna Catharina Magdalena, Anna Catharina Margaretha, and Anna Catharina Maria might in fact be the same person. This is one of those frustrating cases, that has to stay open for ages…
My warmest thanks for your patience 😃